Cultivating Togetherness: In Conversation With Honore Comfort
January 30, 2025
This interview comes from our ground-breaking podcast series New Consumers, New Narratives, which asks how the wine trade can invite new audiences into wine.
Honore Comfort is Vice President of International Marketing at the Wine Institute in California. Not only is she responsible for developing the global brand for California’s wines globally, but she also runs the California Wines Export Program.
In 2024, the Wine Institute commissioned a big study aiming to understand the minds of the zillenials, the clever contraction of Gen Z – at least the ones that are old enough to legally drink- and millennials. While acknowledging that this cohort is diverse, the study focused on understanding the key points making this demographic so different from other age groups and how these differences impact the way they see – and think about wine.
The below interview has been shortened and edited for clarity. It is only part of a much longer, fascinating interview that you can find on every podcasts platforms.
Areni Global:
In September 2024, at our event in Helsinki, you shared the result of an exploration of [those of] legal drinking age, Gen Z and Millennial consumers. Can you tell us a bit more about what triggered the need for this study?
Honore Comfort:
This stemmed from a conversation happening at the leadership level of Wine Institute exactly a year ago. As we all recall, 2023 was a very challenging year in the global wine industry. We still hadn’t seen the final numbers, but the conversation was centred around the growing headwinds. One of the key challenges was recognising the decline in engagement with younger consumers. The Wine Institute is a member-led organization. We have a board that is representative of wineries of all sizes across the state, and it’s led by a team of six officers. And so we were in conversation with the officers and they essentially [told us], “Look, our community is basically in crisis here. We need you to get involved and see what we can do to help support our members.”
We recognized that what we could do would be to look ahead — 5, 10, 15 years — to our future consumers. All of us were looking at the same data, right? And we were seeing this decline — a slowing growth rate into the wine category with younger consumers. And so we asked our members if this was a valuable place for us to focus our efforts and attention. They said, yes, absolutely.
One of the things that I hear quite often is, “Oh, we hear about young people not being interested in wine, but it was the same in every generation because wine is not a drink for young people.”
I wouldn’t say that I disagree with the statement that people come into wine a little later as they begin to mature, but I will point out that there are two critical and generational shifts that we see today that we haven’t seen previously. And the first is that the marketplace in which wine now operates is dramatically more complex. For example, when I came to wine, it was basically wine, beer, and spirits and spirits was pretty nominal. There were not RTDs, there wasn’t hard seltzer, there wasn’t this remarkable range of choices and options. We have so much more to compete with and it’s very distinctive.
The second critical piece in all of this is that this micro-generation that we’re talking about, these Millennials, are fundamentally different from any generation that has come before them.
And that’s because they are described as digital natives, meaning that they have grown up in a digital world with access to the internet, cell phones etc. The rest of us are termed called digital immigrants. We have come into this digital world. We’ve learned to use and adapt to technology. And while we use it every day, the relationship is very, very different. So these digital natives — their approach to the world, the way they engage with each other, the way they get information, socialize — all of that is fundamentally different. And the way that they go through the process of learning about, discovering and then ultimately purchasing something like wine is very different.
As a category, wine is very good at telling our story, and we’ve been doing it for the most part in roughly the same ways. Of course, we’ve adapted and we’ve added on, and everyone is on social media, but there are some fundamental differences. To truly engage this audience, and not just now, but setting them up to fall in love with wine and become lifelong wine consumers like us, we need to learn now how to engage with them.
What were the main objectives of this study?
Our main objective is to understand how wine can build a lifelong relationship with these consumers. We can’t afford to run the risk of not engaging them. We need to start now to plant the seeds. People come into wine gradually. Many are introduced either to it through their friends or family at different points along the way, but it takes time. As we are looking at engagement rates relative to previous levels with similar age cohorts, the engagement is declining and that’s what we’re concerned about.
We started to see that there is a systemic disconnect between the way that the wine sector as a whole engages with our audience and what this age cohort is looking for. Now, we’re also basing this on the fact that future consumers are going to be more similar to millennials than they are to previous age cohorts. So if we as a category can learn to do a better job of engaging with consumers, then we’re doing a better job of setting ourselves up for building and developing our future audience.
What type of questions did you ask?
The first thing we did was a broad-based review of existing industry research. We needed to dig into the data and make certain that we were starting from an informed position, which we did. We then reached out to the marketing insights groups; many of our Wine Institute members have some very sophisticated marketing teams that were already doing a lot of work in this space. And we asked them, “What have you seen? Let’s not recreate the wheel here. Share with us what you already have.” And they were incredibly generous. We had some robust discussions. We also zeroed in on a better understanding of global consumer trends and forces that were shaping the direction and responses of consumers on a broader basis.
We started by asking our Millennial consumers directly about themselves, the way they see the world, how they see themselves in it, and then how does wine fit in?
This was back in March of 2024 and we started working with a gentleman, Paul Peterson. He has a company called CoinJar Insights and Strategy. Paul has a methodology that he uses, whether it’s for breakfast cereal or running shoes or automotive, that there are people he has termed ‘catalysts’. They are people who are particularly passionate about that product or that sector. They’re highly engaged, they love to talk about it, share it with their friends, family.
And so we identified a group of these catalysts around wine. We had 42 participants. They were evenly divided between Generation Z and early millennials, from age 21 up to age 40. We also screened for geographic diversity, racial ethnic diversity, urban, suburban.
We identified both catalysts — those that are engaged with wine and enjoy it and are passionate about it — and then the other half of the group we described as potential lapsed or lapsing consumers. Those who don’t have a relationship with wine or used to drink wine but aren’t drinking it as much anymore. And so what we wanted to do is understand the difference between these two groups.
So we spent more than 60 hours speaking with these individuals on a one-on-one basis. We did both individual interviews and one-on-one conversations. We gave our participants homework. They came prepared to talk about themselves, their lives, the world, their habits, their preferences, all of those things. We then put them together in focus groups of eight, and again, we kept them separated by age categories.
It was amazing. At times, it was depressing, because the conversations went dark pretty quickly when we asked them about the world.
But at the same time, they were remarkably optimistic. There’s this sense of even though times are tough — and that was the first thing that they would lead with — there was also this consistent sense of: “I can lead the life I want to lead, if I just work a little harder, get a second job, focus, stay committed”.
How much do you think generational marketing is important?
The reason why age demographic matters is because the emergence of technology can be tied to a date, to a time. Smartphones in particular have had such a dramatic impact on society and we can really tie it back to that.
Millennial consumers are at the centre of the bullseye for us, because we recognize how important it is that we figure out how we communicate with them. So age is a handy point of entry for talking about consumers, but by no means is it the defining aspect of it. We have continued to test and engage and make certain that the things that we’re talking about resonate equally well with older Millennials, Gen X and also with boomers. We don’t want to lose anyone along the way.
And for those involved in media, the ability to target your consumer with a specific message is so much more advanced today. So it is possible to engage and connect directly with a specific consumer segment through a range of digital media.
What were the biggest insights coming out from this study?
We went into it thinking, okay, we’re going to uncover some big juicy insight and that’s going to be the silver bullet. And actually, we started to get a little frustrated because while we learned a lot about our consumers, what we were hearing back from them was almost exactly what the wine category has been saying for years. They have a very positive perception of wine. That wine is about sharing with others and celebrating a special occasion. It belongs at the dinner table. If you’re going over to someone’s house, you show up with a bottle of wine.
At the same time, they would say, “That’s great, but it’s just not for me yet. It’s just not for me right now because my life is so busy.” It’s so crazy. “Wine is expensive. It’s confusing,” were a lot of the classic things that we heard. A few things really rose to the top. Number one was the remarkable demands that they’re feeling in terms of financial pressure and also time pressure. And those two things go very much hand in hand. Almost all of the participants that we spoke had a side gig.
And so their available time has really just gone away, and they miss that. And what has been sacrificed is quality time with their friends and their family and that opportunity to connect in a real way. They rely heavily on their technology.
What they were saying to us was that they wanted relationships and they realized that just trying to do it digitally was just not satisfying enough. And they’re struggling with that. It’s interesting here in the States, we’re seeing a real drop off in decline on dating apps, and it’s because this generation is moving away from them and recognizing that it’s not the way to connect and find someone in a meaningful way. They’re trying all sorts of things. Dining clubs are huge. Running clubs are huge.
And another thing is that because they’re feeling that the world is polarized, they’re surrounded by negativity, it’s very challenging. They’re actively seeking things that are fun and funny and light and optimistic. They want this sense of optimism. Wine can dovetail really nicely with a lot of these things. It was almost ironic how what they [were saying] they didn’t have enough of in their life are exactly the types of experiences that wine lends itself too. You sit down and you open a bottle with friends. You enjoy it over dinner. It’s very different from going out for cocktails or having drinks before you go to the club or sharing a bunch of beers after.
The other thing that we heard over and over again is that wine is so appealing because it is lower alcohol. The whole approach is to enjoy it and savour it over time, generally with food. And they value that. They see that as an opportunity.
And so, following the qualitative research that we did, we had several key insights and we built what we described as a positioning platform for wine. And one of the researchers, or really our partner in crime on this project, Mark Barden, was founder of an agency called eatbigfish. He’s one of the architects of the challenger brand approach, which is really a way to tell a story about your brand or your category that challenges preconceived notions. Every challenger narrative is essentially that it’s a story that you’re telling and engaging with consumers, and every good story has a monster, right?
You have to start by slaying that monster. And within our challenger narrative, the monster that we’re talking about is what we’ve termed this ‘connection amnesia’. These younger consumers are losing the ability to connect face-to-face and losing a sense of why it’s so important. We have an opportunity to help work against that.
So that was the first big insight, the connection amnesia. The second one was that wine lacks cultural energy. Can you address this one?
Everyone was clearly aware of wine. They’re aware of wine’s qualities and attributes, but it is definitely not a part of their world. We lack salience or this cultural energy. And a lot of that is the wine traditionally communicates. We communicate directly and we do it well, but we communicate with those that are already in the space, following the very traditional norms of the things that we do with winemaker dinners and consumer tastings.
So we’re working with another team. These are two guys based up in the Pacific Northwest. They previously both worked for Wieden + Kennedy. They now have their own agency, and the way they describe themselves is as connection planners. They develop connection strategies. It starts with first understanding your consumer audience and understanding not just the media that they consume, but how, when and why that intertwines with their lifestyle and their interests.
We worked with a platform called YouGov, which is a global database of consumers, and we zeroed in on the US because it’s the largest wine-consuming market in the world. It’s also the most diverse, the most complex. We started with the age segment of 21 to 40; that’s over 92 million individuals here in the US. We then zeroed in, based on household income between $40,000 and $150,000. We also screened for making certain that they’re in the beverage alcohol category, that that’s part of their life.
And then we screened for relative interests. And this comes back to these things that classically tie in with wine like cooking, experiencing new food and cuisines, traveling, gardening, reading, all of those things. That got us to a segment of 9.7 million consumers. We then looked more deeply into that consumer set to understand who they are, what they do, how they engage with media. And it was fascinating.
What came out of this is that they are culturally savvy experience seekers that value a deep immersive social engagement with the things that they like to do. That is both physical and digital, and this is hugely important. It isn’t one or the other. They’re really curious. They want to learn. They want to know what’s going on, what’s current, what’s next. They love food and cuisine. They’re very focused on having an active lifestyle and being engaged. They love to travel. They love comedy and music and all of these things. They’re also very focused on content creators. They love to get their information from those who are deeply engaged in the stuff that they’re interested in.
Some of this isn’t new, but what’s different? For example, food and beverage, and food and beverage culture is hugely important to these younger consumers. And there’s a strong correlation, as we’ve been saying all along, between wine and food and beverage. What’s different about this group is how they engage. They want to be hands-on. They want to go behind the scenes when they travel. They want to go on food tours and meet the chefs or the winemakers. And so when we looked at some of the key trends where this group over indexes. Just within food and beverage, they are 52% more likely to enjoy cooking at home than average individuals. They are 224% more likely to attend food festivals and events and engage. So it’s this high level of engagement. And then they look for that with their online content creators as well.
How do you create events and experiences that they will prioritize?
Well, I think there are a couple of things that we can learn from this. The first is looking at the places that they are engaging and learning from them. So here’s a great example. There’s a website called Tasty, and Tasty focuses on snack-sized videos about food and cooking. They’re all 60 seconds. They’re visually appealing, but they also deliver great information. We can easily do that. We have great characters and personalities. I mean, is there any category that has more personalities than wine?
Another great example is we are very good at doing events and participating in events, and we will always continue to do that, but let’s step outside the norm and perhaps consider a broader set of events and activities where wine can show up and be a part of it. So, for example, one of the big trends right now here in the US are night markets. We’re seeing them everywhere, and they’re very much focused on food and creators and beverage. Wine isn’t necessarily showing up there, and that’s a great opportunity.
We have also been developing our own new creative. It’s bright, colourful, fun, high energy, very different from what you see presented from a wine perspective. This spring we’ll be launching a full campaign in Canada and using that as a test market and tracking both pre- and post-consumer awareness, perception and intent to purchase.
How did you use some of the insights to build a different campaign?
So first and foremost, it starts from the perspective of having a conversation with the audience about wine and making certain that we’ve developed a tone of voice that’s fun, fresh, approachable, witty, direct, but simple. And we also recognize that it needed to look very different. So when it comes across on their Instagram feeds, it doesn’t look like everything else that they’re seeing.
We are working with an illustrator. He’s a really talented guy. His name is Nick Stokes, and he did all of the graphics for the recent Harry Styles tour. His style that he’s brought into this is energetic, it’s fresh, it’s colourful, and it’s bold.
We’ll be engaging with podcasts and digital audio and streaming audio.
The third key insight with this segment is community validation is central to how they engage.
This is not a short-term initiative. This is a long-term process. It’s really a shift in the way that we as wine marketers think about and approach our communications.
Consistent with its Code of Advertising Standards, Wine Institute is committed to ensuring wine is promoted responsibly to those adults who choose to consume it. Wine Institute offers insights and tools to help their members promote their wines to consumers of legal drinking age. Their members are required to market wine to adults in a responsible and appropriate manner. This commitment includes the responsible content and placement of all communications concerning wine. All research, insights, and strategies have been developed for an adult audience above the age of 25 who are self-described consumers and purchasers of alcohol beverages.